@SilverSatin: thanks for such a reply! I believe it is the most comprehensive and best articulated discussion of economic aspects in RW so far. I would like to add a "Like", but they seem not to be available on this sub-forum.
Posts by Miwarre
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there is a "server_key" file in the server directory which contains a unique UUID.
Is this supposed to be already implemented and/or does it require full network access from outside?
I installed on my machine and occasionally run a "local dedicated server" (if this makes any sense!) mostly for script testing, but I didn't bother to fully configure the network and open the relevant ports on the router, as it is not supposed to be reached from outside.
In its folder there is no "server_key" file and the logs complain about being "Unable to request UUID from hive"; it is because of the incomplete network setup?
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no that's right if you want your players to be auto moved to a group lets say by how long they are online...
I think @icon58 is asking something different; not how to move this or that player to some specific group, but how to have all new players automatically set into a default group the first time they connect.Functionally, this can be achieved by editing the default.permissions to the required settings and simply using the default group to which users are automatically added at first spawn. But I assume this is not enough for the OP.
Quoteyou will need to make a script that updates the mysql database the line is simple something like this
UPDATE `rising_world_server_2`.`player` SET `Group` = 'Surveyor' WHERE `player`.`OnlineTime` BETWEEN 0 AND 7200
UPDATE `rising_world_server_2`.`player` SET `Group` = 'Settler' WHERE `player`.`OnlineTime` BETWEEN 7201 AND 14400
Yes, but it is not obvious how to access the world SQL database in the first place (the getDatabase() LUA global function accesses a DB in the script folder, which is specific to the script itself and has no access to the world/server data). -
@SilverSatin: thanks for your reply and for the additional info.
"The role of money on Freaks R US is just like money on your debit card in real life. You use it as a universal barter currency for resources/items/ Skynet services/ or services you purchase from others".
Thanks, I think I understand. Of course, in real life, money is not simply this. Maybe it pretends to be or some economic theories pretend it to be just a measure unit of the value of goods (inherent value, perceived value, usage value, exchange value: whatever; these are interesting distinctions, but secondary). In fact, it became a merchandise in its own, which you can buy and sell; a merchandise which has a value of its own, which is supposed to be measurable with money itself (in other words, money is supposed to be a measure of itself); value which is variable over time (hardly compatible with the usage of a measure unit!). It is from this that many problems we have in our societies stem.
And it is mostly in this that 'our' real world money differs from a system of barter tokens.
I find particularly interesting the concept of purchasing services from other players, also because this almost inevitably brings in Justice and Judges... about ehich I have not thought and I am probably not knowledgeable enough to discuss.
Thanks, M.
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Unfortunatly for an economy to work in RW the difficulty rate of finding ores should be way higher than it is now.[...]
You can only attract a flow of money when you're offering something people cant get on their own or are having a hard time getting on their own.What i saw was people that need something real quick but cant get it might want to pay for it.
So this is how SKynet started out to be.[...]
Hower its spinned around a few rules remain true;
As long as life on RW is free. you wont have an economy.
As long as life on RW is easy. you wont have a barter system
Without a need to barter you wont reach to an economyComing from someone with an actual experience in implementing and running an economy system in RW, this seems to me a very important reply. Still there are some aspects I do not understand.
1) The 3 rules you quote make a lot of sense to me, in particular the middle one (of which the other two can mostly be considered consequences): As long as life on RW is easy, you wont have a barter system.
Still, you seem to imply that SkyNet is a successful experiment. Does this mean that you managed to make life in RW less easy? Or it is mostly a matter of speed? Is the main point that, for instance, builders can buy materials for building and food for surviving quicker than crafting/farming them in vanilla RW (and similarly for other activities)?
2) Which is the role of money in your system? It is 'just' an exchange token, making transactions simpler and/or quicker -- for instance by removing the need of physical proximity --, or there is a money market in its own?
Thanks, M.
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Sorry for the delay in answering, my computer broke and I'm using my wife's when she is not using it. I'm splitting the answer in two. First about the "who made what" issue.
Display MoreI mean no disrespect but Vornet has an original counterpart -> Skynet.
I took the time to innovate
I took the time to improve
and i took the time to program Skynet a year ago (and still coming up with new ideas).Its a little distasteful to see props of *spending time to think* given to somebody who merely made a copy of said project.
But i dont blame you, i guess i've been too quiet about it for too long.@SilverSatin: No disrespect assumed. Still, the context of my reply above seemed clear to me, possibly I didn't make it clear enough. Of all who replied to my OP, Chris was at that time the only one who actually worked at an economy related script; this put his reply a little apart from all the other, interesting but abstract, replies. Now there are two: Chris and you (to list in reply order) or you and Chris (to list in implementation order).
I will not enter in the question about who made what; at anyone browsing the fora should be clear that 1) you were first (Chris himself said it openly in this post, among others), 2) as apparently the source is not available, Chris had to re-implement everything from scratch and this, by itself, requires time, thought and knowledge, even if it is only a pure copy, which I cannot tell, as I have no access to sources, like everybody else.
Anyway, I am ready to acknowledge any right of primogeniture you want to establish in this area. And with this I hope the matter can be considered clarified.
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@ConJon: thanks for your comments. And the party is not over, there is no "best before" date on ideas! In fact, what you describe supports one or two not secondary observations.
1) Money vs Economy. The economy / economic trend example you make does not necessarily depends on money: it may be based on "coins" as well as on pelts you trade in or on whatever item RW currently already has, from ores to lumbers.
This matches my feeling that money and economy do not necessarily go together and, in a game like RW which is based mostly on items you craft, harvest or raise, money will likely have no structural function, but at most an 'ornamental' function.
2) Who runs the business?. The image you paint involves several parties (factories, local shops, villages to support those shops, enemies of some kind to shuffle the deck periodically, and so on). Who runs them? In single-player, it must obviously be the programme. But even in multi-player, it would not be so different: RW is not an MMO game and even in the future, when the game will be more popular, the average number of players in a private server will not be large enough to primarily rely on players for filling all those roles.
So, in the end, we are again at an example of State (or social(-ist?)) economy: all this trading chain is obviously an-economic or even anti-economic and it should go bankrupt very soon as it relies on a single 'final customer' in single-player mode and on quite few final customers in multi-player mode, unless a superior -- or abstract -- party keeps it running independently of economic considerations (the game itself).
I am not a partisan of capitalism (quite the contrary, actually) but, for all we live in a capitalist environment of some flavour and we are sold the idea that capitalism is the "natural" or "right" way of doing things, I find curious that we seem unable to arrive at a capitalistic economy in a game like RW (other games simply assume a capitalist context as datum). There must be something profound here, but I cannot grasp it...
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Thanks for the reply.
Basically you can extract the textures and use them for plugins or mods for Rising World,
Great! This is less strict than many licensing models!
however, if you use them for something else (another game or anything that's not related to RW) it might be problematic.
Of course! Fair enough.
Yes, that's on our list
Super!That's already the way how the plugin API is going to handle custom models: The texture is independent of the model (with the exception of uv coordinates of course). When loading a model, you have to assign an "image" object to it (which points to a file on your harddrive, or in the future alternatively to an existing RW texture [as mentioned above]). This image object can be assigned to multiple models of course, and may also be used for other things (e.g. to display an image on the gui)
Very well thought. You are spoiling us!
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This is partly a question and partly a suggestion.
1) Question: Extracting and using the RW built-in textures to texture custom objects for RW would be considered a copyright infringement? The use case is to ensure a good blending of custom objects usable as new block shapes with built-in blocks (as an example, a column section or a capital used together with regular blocks).
2) Suggestion: It would probably be useful to have a way to access the built-in textures directly (i.e. without extracting and duplicating them); this would reduce memory usage for textures (whichever type of memory) and ensure a good match with surrounding blocks (UV mapping would be a little tricky, but I believe it would be worth the effort).
3) Suggestion bis: in the future it would be great to have a way to parametrise the texture used by a custom object, so that the same mesh could be textured at will with any of the textures available in-game at build time rather than at modelling time.
Thanks!
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More details and a bit of summary of what I discovered by practical tests:
1) What matters is the the file name of the permission group (and not the group: value within the file itself): if the file name is casualPlayers.permissions, then it has to be accessed in console commands as setplayergroup <player_name> casualPlayers.
2) The file name cannot contain blanks. If the file name is casual players.permissions, the required command setplayergroup <player_name> casual players would fail, as it would see as group name only casual.
3) File name case also matters: setplayergroup <player_name> casualplayers (with a lower case 'p') would not work (this might be OS dependent, but for remote servers, the OS may be beyond control, so better to play safe)
4) The group: value within the file itself might be different and be more expressive. A value of Casual players would display as such in the Tab list (cleaner than a camel-cased single word!); still the group would be accessed in commands by its file name and not by the group: value.
5) If there is no group: value in the file, the group will not show up in the Tab list (but the group will still be accessible in console commands)
Hope it will be useful to server managers.
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Also gotta set it in the config as the default group, Since your first level permission file is Level1.permissions the first L always has to be capital in both the console command and in the config
Open server.properties and change
settings_default_newplayer_group=
to
settings_default_newplayer_group=Level1Yes, this should work. As an alternative:
1) Leave empty the settings_default_newplayer_group value in server.properties and
2) edit the permissions/default.permissions file to the settings you prefer for newly coming players (your Level0 settings).
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Also the group name MUST NOT contain spaces: "Level 1" will not be recognized as a group, as a string like setplayergroup somebody Level 1 will be split at the blank and the group name will be "Level" only with an extra token "1"
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I am very ignorant about trees and vegetation in general. A few comments, nevertheless...
1) I assume that, while many trees can be found more or less everywhere, many are specific to individual biomes; it would be nice if specific trees continue to being found in their relevant biomes (as already happens for most implemented trees). With the possibility to 'import' them in other biomes (you can plant palm seedlings almost anywhere, at least in RW)
2) It would also be nice if this 'imports' may succeed or not according to biome specs (I never tried, but you shoud not be able to plant a palm in an artic region).
3) 'Nice' trees should go along with useful ones, trees (and plants in general) giving foods, materials and so on.
That said, nice pictures! I particularly find impressing the first one: a bit uncanny, but suggestive!
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Well, at least it's our intention that each plugin is able to create custom pages in the journal (independent of the "server notes" section). We will also add more elements to the journal like textfields, lists and checkboxes, so it will be possible to control the plugin or call certain functions with the journal. Of course that's just optional, alternatively one could still use commands etc.
Very good news!
QuoteHowever, I'm afraid this won't be available with the first release of the new API
Yes, it could be useful, but I understand it is not a top priority.
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Luckily there is a compatibility option available, so old links should work again nowThey do!
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With the recent forum update, something changed in the way links to forum posts are generated and/or parsed and none of the URL previously generated for thread/posts works any longer. An example, taken from one of my posts.
*) When I created this thread, I inserted links to other threads with interesting scripts; all links have been created by opening the target thread and copy-n-pasting the URL from the browser address bar.
*) All the links were working at that time. For instance, the first one is a link to
.
Now the URL for that same thread has become:
with a different path/query structure and different capitalisation => the URL is not found and the forum home page is loaded instead.
I can easily edit my own posts, when I think it is worth, but the casual (or less determined) user might be frustrated by the number of non-working links in the fora.
Can anything be done to improve things?
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Doesn't matter if its a minecraft tool or not, its a useful tool for a survival/crafting game where there is lots to explore. And F3 only shows you what biome you are in and your coordinates. I'm talking about potentially writing a program to extract the world data via the api and generate a map.
Yes, I understood the idea is to arrive at tool mapping biomes (among other things). But, if you are curious now, you may start exploring and gathering sample data now via F3.
when we import 3D models, are the textures attached to them or do we have to use the in-game textures?
Good question! I assumed attached textures are also transferred. However, as this may rapidly escalate to a huge amount of server->client network traffic as the number of custom models increases, the dev team may have though of some limitation about custom texture. Definitely, an important detail!
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AMIDST sounds [...], it still needs a minecraft library included.
Not sure about all this interest for MineCraft add-ons/mods. My opinion might well be biased, as I have never played to MC, but:
*) for all the similarities in genre, as far as I can tell from the descriptions (and a few minutes looking over the shoulders of other players!), the two programmes are rather different in concept, so what makes sense for one not necessarily does for the other too (well, any kind of mapping tool would certainly make sense, but other might not).
*) nothing can really be 'ported'; everything has to be redone from scratch, relying on a different API, which itself relies on different code and data structures.
QuoteI'd imagine implementing something similar in Rising World would require the API to have a method which takes seed number, world type, and other world parameters (caves enabled, vegetation enabled (if that affects land generation), , and a chunk ID. The method would return an array of useful info such as biome ID, water presence, ground height, ground type and other features such as cave entrance, or structure (village, temple, shack, dungeon).
Input might be much simpler than that: while using such a tool, you already have a world (with all its parameters) and RW already has code which retrieves all those data (or generates them if not created yet). All you need is a pair of X and Z coordinates (or, more meaningful, West and North coordinates) and maybe an optional Y (altitude) coordinate. All the needed pieces are already there. Of course, this would require to generate the chunk(s) if not visited yet, but there is no way around this!It might be exposed in an API or not (now or later). If not, well, tough luck! If yes, well, the hard part is done!
QuoteA visual representation would be neat to show how each biome is actually shaped (something I'm very curious about after seeing those square oceans
F3 already shows these info; if you are curios, simply wander around and take note of biome transitions. A manual long work, but maybe results are interesting... (this is how I discovered the sea/lakes patterns).
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No real "insight", but "ocean" -- or any other string -- IS the seed. Someone accustomed to the various random functions in programming language which accept a numeric parameter as seed may find it strange, but it actually behaves as a seed:
*) same 'seed' => same world
*) different 'seed' => different world.And, yes, the seed is definitely case sensitive and the one intended as ocean show case is presumably "Ocean" with a capital 'O', as this one spawns you near an ocean, while "ocean" does not (unless I made a typo too...)
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Uh, I forgot to ask:
Will it be possible to craft items programmatically like in the "item [name] [selector] [qty]" console command, not to place them in the world -- this is already kind of possible -- but for instance to give to players?
One could assume it is more or less implicit in the list given above, but knowing for sure would be great.
And, again, THANKS FOR THE WONDERFUL NEWS!
