Posts by zfoxfire

The survivalist lifestyle seems to appeal to me but I am not prepared to live if SHTF. Still its a fantasy life of mine. Maybe thats why I like survival/crafting so much.

I didnt know about boiling parts to make glue. I honestly dont expect Rising World to get too hardcore survivalist but I do hope that Rising World will maintain its spirit of realism when we get into primitive crafting.

I dont know what Red really plans for animal processing but I could apppreciate a drying rack at minimum and a leather tanning station.

Same brightness (a.k.a. too bright) as always from my perspective. Eventually the lighting is going to get a rework and its going to be all fancy looking.

Quote from Chrisx84

wow someone needs to take a chill pill.

Meh you brought up politics. Keep in mind that RisingWorld and gaming in general is likely the only thing some of us have in common. We could be bitter about every other difference.

My understanding is that whatever fuel source you throw in simply adds to the total amount of fuel in the furnace. Coal provides more fuel than wood.

Hi Modern,

Sounds like we are on the same page for the most part. I do like the idea of fur clothing. What exactly are sinews used for in crafting?

Red said he wantedd to make it possible to dig up things in rock, I guess in gravel and dirt too. I like the idea of digging up flint in the gravel. I wonder if the current system of terrain modification would allow us to dig a very small area out of the ground by hand.

And yes, the animal hanging might be a bit too much for most players. That seems like something you'd see in a more hardcore survival game.

I got really excited now, thinking this was a new video yet it is old

thank you Arcane for responding to that one. I really didn't want to say a thing

Thanks Joni,

Actually this was the same company that made the other demo video I saw. Lots of 3d artists are sceptical about the claims about not requiring tremendous amounts of processing power to render this kind of detail, certainly not in real time

Ok, this makes a lot of sense so basically the terrain and subterrains are rendered still in polygons but essentially molded into a shape represented by the data points. So whenever we mine out a hole in Rising World are we essentially removing a data point (or adding maybe) voxel data point causing the rendering engine to redraw (in polygons) that area of the mountain to account for the change?

I guess true Voxel rendering would be a departure from using polygons and textures to render a spot. My understanding is that it essentially creates lots of tiny blobs to make up a larger structure. But to create the individual blob, arent we still using mesh and thus just making the mesh more complicated? I found a video somewhere which showed how instead of applying a cobblestone texture to a block to make a wall that instead each rock in the wall was rendered. Isn't this still increasing polygon count? Doesnt everything ultimately have to be converted into a mash shape which then in turn gets converted to a bitmap image to display on your screen?

Could you recommend some reading material or videos? I'd really love to understand the voxel rendering better. The datapoints are easy to comprehend.

So i know Minecraft is a voxel based game. To my knowledge, a voxel is an object whose position is stored as relative to another voxel. In minecraft the voxels happen to be rendered as cubes.
So is Rising World also voxel? Does splitting the word into smaller chunks, each chunk relative to another make it a voxel game?

I ask this because I see people label any game with blocks as a voxel game. I read up on voxels and apparently Crysis was a voxel game.

The landscape is a gigantic mesh but is the mesh drawn as an interpretation of voxel data?

Burning Board is the software that this forum is running

Ok, so i think that the character data is part of the world data with the current implementation . If that changes where the character is seperate then perhaps the character stats and inventory can transfer between worlds or uploaded to a server.

In multiplayer you would be at the mercy of the admins as to whether your character can be uploaded. If we have tribes on a server then you can join a tribe and inherit their skill set of that tribe (based on the previous suggestion I made in your thread about ages and civilizations). Another option is that by picking up a dropped tool by another player or if you find an old tool in a cave, you can pick that up and begin at whatever branch in the crafting tree that tool can be made with. This also keeps with the theme that a player remembers how to make things even after death.

I guess that at present, keeing our characters is not an issue. We start out with iron tools and we can craft a workbench after chopping down a few trees. We have no skill set or character attributes at this time to worry about. Perhaps then depending of how far Red intends to go with character development will determine if he extracts the character info from the world.

So you would rather not explore the stone age from what you said there. I guess thats fine for some players. I personally and many others sound excited to have primitive crafting. Perhaps you just want to be able to quickly craft a stone axe in the event you lose the iron one. Perhaps your idea of primitive tools are a temporary substitution rather than a starting point.

Well, if you die and didnt create a cache of spare tools then i guess you would have to start over. Thats a result of poor planning.

But yes, a crafting tree is needed. I wanted to do something like that in the last post you made on transversing the ages. The focus of this thread was just on primitive tools. This assumes you know how to make anything from a stone axe to a steam train. The other thread seemed more about starting with zero knowledge of tools and also on developing culturally.

Regarding the creation of cutting tools, in the real world you would spend hours of hand grinding stone on stone to create a shape. I'm not suggesting we sit in game for an hour to make one stone. That sounds like something you would see in Wurm which actually requires multiple players and to compensate for the diversity of crafting skills, long crafting times, and the detail of comstruction down to the individual nails. I want so see something not as tedious but fairly complex so we should reduce the time and focus on the crafting recipes. We shape stones to make a crude tool which can then be attached to a stick for added leverage. In grinding stone on stone, one stone is likely to be destroyed so it might take several stones to make one axe head.

I do like the idea of making bricks with our bare hands. Clay pots would also be nice to have.

I am curious of what your ideas are regarding how we should implement primitive crafting.

Yes, hemp is coming. We need plant binding material. Hemp is a great source but other sources should work too in a pinch. That why I thought grass could be used to bind. Granted maybe not as well for tools but ok for thatch huts.

My thoughts behind the holding of a tool is because we already have an inventory screen so I figured we wouldn't be using a hunting knife to to actually cut the animal up after we kill it. If we are out hunting then we are going to have to use the knife regardless In games like ARK, the tool you use determines how much have meat and hide can be collected. So do we simply open the inventory screen or do we actually hack away at the carcass?

What I am suggesting is that we go that route but without the actual act of using the tool. In ark you attack the animal after killing to extract meat.

Maybe the whole inventory screen for an animal is a bad approach. Perhaps Red intended that as a placeholder.

It definately is planned but likely low priority. We only have one developer doing most of the code so these things take time.

And yes, a wooden pickaxe seems to be a rather funny idea for a tool. I cant imagine a wood axe or wood pickaxe being effective in any way whatsoever. In history, we went from stone tools to metal tools.

Hi Jon,

Red did mention some other furnaces in the works. There would be a more primitive furnace as well as a small furnace. Id imagine those require less stone. My ideas are mainly to get from barehanded to around the point we currently start out where essentially we chop some trees down and make a workbench. So for the scope of my original post, metallurgy doesnt even come into play.

Hi Miwware,
For 1a my idea was only a suggestion for the technical issue of how to hide that transitional moment in game when objects in the field respawn or change. For example, if you stare at a tree in game for hours, at some point that tree has to be redrawn as it matures. There are only 2 or 3 states modeled for trees in Rising World. I dont know how this is currently addressed. Maybe the tree redraws the next time its in your visible range. I havent kept a game open 5 hours or so just to see how its handled.

For 2a. I was referring to primitive tools made of stone, not the iron tools we currently start with. Red is already planning to drop the iron tools from inventory once primitve tools can be crafted. I am simply trying to figure out a good recipe system and other ideas to get us to a crafting table. Once we are able to craft a workbench then we can use the currently implemented approach to making an anvil and then making the components for iron tools.

And in 2b, as I said, we will have primitive stone tools that we can use for mining more stone to make the furnace. The stone tools will surely have less effectiveness and durability as iron.

With the last few updates being geared more towards survival (water, canteens, and fuel requirements) and with primitive tools just around the corner, I'm introducing a new suggestion list for primitive crafting. This is based mostly on my own thought but includes some other ideas I remember others suggested elsewhere. Some I'm repeating just incase Red didn't see or maybe to persuade him further to re-consider (seeing that the game development is partially community inspired).

Naturally spawning objects

• So if anyone is not aware, naturally occurring sticks and stones are already confirmed to be coming
• natural sticks should spawn or re-spawn randomly on the ground in proximity of trees but only after sleeping -- similar to The Forest
• natural stones same general behavior as above but probably spawn near cave entrances, inside caves, and near water bodies
• A river rock variation of the above might be more suitable for crafting weapons
• Animal bones (individual bones found scattered or salvaged of a carcass)

Other crafting mechanic changes

• add alternative ingredients for a crafting recipe (see primitive campfire section below for example)
• Either barehanded or having a tool equipped (either the active hotbar slot or being barehanded if implemented) affects some recipes (like RUST)
• Remove/Replace the "drop" command (key_Q) and change it to unequip (go barehanded).
• Pulling grass is only done by hand so press Q or select a slot with no item (same behavior as ARK)
• Pulling grass is useful for clearing very small patches of glass around stuff like furnaces when placed on grass since now possibly finding the side door is an issue in tall grass
• Pulling grass by hand removes very very small about of grass (1/10th the area of a sickle swipe) . First pull makes the grass it half-height, second pull removed long grass, third pull turns the ground from grass to dirt (obviously this is going to be a very tedious process but useful for minor land changes and gathering plant fibers)

Tool Stone

• I'm bringing this up again even though I don't think Red51 is keen with the idea yet.
• River rocks or possibly rocks found in caves can be crafted into a handheld "cutting tool"
• Two rocks = 1 cutting tool
• Cutting tools may also be occasionally found inside caves left over by past civilizations (pretty sure Red confirmed possibly finding old artifacts embedded in stone or in old clay jars (like Terraria?). some items scattered in caves might be good too)
• A river rock + 1 cutting tool = 1 punch tool (cutting tool destroyed in the process)
• Punch tool + natural stick + plant fibers = primitive axe
• cutting tool + natural stick + plant fibers = primitive pickaxe

Animal decomposition and salvaging

• Animals that we don't "hide" after killing will decompose in a few different stages (each stage advances with the passing of each day)
• 1st stage of decomposition spoils any meat left but can still salvage organs or hide for crafting recipes
• 2nd stage of decomposition only bones are remained.
• dead animals (not the ones we kill) will naturally respawn only after sleeping (because bear attacks happen in the wild)
• Each passing day (regardless of our decision to sleep) will decompose a dead animal further. So eventually we will have only animal bones here and there to pick from
• The tool we are holding (club, axe, pickaxe, or knife/shiv) determine what inventory shows in the carcass and its quality and quantity. So if you arent happy with the inventory (meat, bones, entrails, hide) close the animal's inventory window and hold a different weapon and open it again (since I doubt we will be harvesting by hacking the inamial since the inventory window is already established for animals)

Primitive camp fire

• Modify ingredient requirements and implement alternative crafting ingredients (useful for primitive crafting only)
• One log can be substituted for several natural sticks
• loose river rocks or cave rocks can substitute stone (currently mined)

Primitive knife

• a large animal bone can be collected off of dead animals at any stage of decomposition
• crafting a camp fire and cooking pot is required (should be anyways for boiling water)
• A bone with marrow is dropped into boiling water to remove marrow and become a hollow bone
• If you happen to get a hollow bone from a carcass (possibly after further decomposition) then you can skip the cooking pot step
• bone is crafted into a shiv assuming you have a cutting tool

Starting out

• When we start out bare handed, the only craftable items should be a primitive pickaxe and axe (or the cutting tool if Red51 gets onboard)
• Same rule above applies with making sticks
• An axe or pickaxe or cutting tool must be equipped in order to craft a torch holder
• An axe must be held in order to craft lumber
• A torch can still be crafted from a natural stick (perhaps a new model could be added. The natural stick torch can fit in any torch holder)
• Holding an axe or other tool is required for crafting new items on the workbench
• As an alternative to the last thought, equip a workbench with tool slots. That way, tools can be stored on the workbench so you don't have to be dependant on the tool you are currently holding.
• Any crafting causes a tool to wear (either the one held or the ones stored on the workbench)

Quote from YakMe

Usually it's zfoxfire that gets Red to squeal but I was honored to today lol. He has a list on his main website, but other stuff is a maybe..
you can follow Red51 that's the best way. Also sometimes he reveals that on steam community.

Yeah yeah yeah.. I'm gaining a reputation for being an insider. So be it. I found Red51 to be really approachable. Just realize that if he doesnt respond to you immediately then he might be busy. My primary motivation was to help with reducing some of the communication burden he has (something that's really helped this game stand out from a community perspective). If Red doesnt have to repeat himself then he can spend more time focusing on the development. Being approachable as he is can also backfire when he needs to get work done. So I feel bad sometimes about chatting with him as often as I do.

Before the game hit Steam, when the game was called Concept, there was a bugtracking tool on the old website. I really wish we had something like that again that was community managed to help with tracking suggestions, approved suggestions, rejected suggestions, reported bugs, fixed bugs, changes in progress, implemented features. Kind of like a SCRUM board for those with any project management experience.