Built-in additions vs. plug-ins/mods

    Just read a bunch of posts with suggestions. Most of them are meaningful/sensible/interesting (some seems a bit too niche, but.. who am I to tell?), however I have the feeling that many would be quite suitable for a plug-in (or a mod, if you prefer the term). Also, in consideration that the coming switch to Java plug-ins may bring quite powerful possibilities.


    So, my question: shouldn't perhaps the core development focus in adding basic features and elements AND in providing a flexible, (and possibly performant) way of creating plug-ins, more than in adding an infinite (but never complete) collection of ready-made 'thingies'? By elements, I do not only mean objects you can place, but as well process steps and (mechanical and biological) behaviour patterns, which could be chained and built-upon by plug-ins.


    I think this could allow a more consistent and efficient 'core game' (by spearing dev resources), providing a more robust and polished user experience, even if basic; to which plug-ins could add any sort (many sorts?) of bells and whistles.


    A couple of examples. I read many posts asking for a more hostile environment (or with more hazards); personally, I don't like zombies, monsters, demons and 'final bosses' (there are other games for this kind of things) and, if implemented, I would like an option to disable them: for me and for all the other persons with similar tastes (I am sure I am not the only one!), that development effort would have been wasted. Or the other way around, for things I may like and other may find disturbing or distracting. Other posts ask, for instance, for electricity: very nice, but technology is wide, deep and tall! What about the countless chemical reactions, metallurgy processes, nuclear technology, and so on? What about the innumerable forms of life which exist in this planet (or can be thought of)? Once this "slippery slope" entered, there is no end and there will always be some (some? A lot!) missing pieces.


    If the plug-in framework could be developed enough to allow a fair part of this to be implemented in plug-ins, the load of implementing specific details could be moved to plug-in developers and the dev team could concentrate on the 'important' stuff.


    Just rambling, no well defined strategy, of course. But perhaps it might give someone some idea...


    Thanks for reading,


    M.

    I'm pretty sure that quite a bit of the crazy stuff we've talked about under suggestions will not be implemented in vanilla.


    An overview of what is planned still can be found here:
    https://www.rising-world.net/en/page/more/features.html


    What is not listed is the new JAVA api which is still in the works that will open the door to modability. Right now the game is just too early in development for modding to be feasibly. Once the API is finalized then we should see some mods roll out. This API should also replace all the stuff currently done via LUA scripting which is also being phased out from what I understand.

    Quote from zfoxfire

    An overview of what is planned still can be found here:
    <a href="https://www.rising-world.net/en/page/more/features.html" class="externalURL" rel="nofollow">rising-world.net/en/page/more/features.html</a>


    Thank you, I was aware of this list (which perhaps would benefit from an update: it still list things like animals, biomes, etc. as still to implement). Still some of the items in it could probably be left to modding (like for instance a full-fledged (rail-)road system, once the programme supplies the concepts and the behaviour elements).

    Quote from zfoxfire

    Right now the game is just too early in development for modding to be feasibly. Once the API is finalized then we should see some mods roll out.


    Indeed! For this reason, I believe that the implementation of the API should have a relatively high priority. For more than 15 years, I have been a developer of add-ons (the term 'mod' was not fashionable yet...) for Microsoft Flight Simulator, after having been instrumental in understanding how create them and in pushing MS to open the architecture. Add-ons were the primary reason of the longevity of MS FS (almost 20 years in production and 10 versions) compared to all the other flight simulators. Another genre and another time, of course, still I see some similitude and I hope this could apply to RW too.

    Quote from zfoxfire

    From a programmer's perspective, I totally agree that backend changes should take highest priority but I think at this point there's going to be a holy war if we don't get water soon ;)


    Indeed, indeed! Water should be there! Because it is nice to have and to look at and because it is an important piece of the backend too! Relatively high priority, without dropping anything else for the sake of it! ;(

    Of course an API will benefit everyone especially the more features it has such as


    * 0. API for avatar (interactions / skins / location indicator / relative position / inventory / facing)
    * 1. API for loading in models any open source XML, DXF, DWF or whatever is popular. I am so old I don't know.
    2. API for adding in foods we have a lot of foods added.
    3. API for interacting with (machines, cooking, avatar)
    4. API for adding in crafting recipes (requirements)
    5. API for replacing Textures easily
    6. API for moving (avatars/objects/chests) transportation is done we will have a group using the model API on top of existing models like replacing trains with cars / ships /airplanes / or boats.



    I agree any API that is done well will improve this game.


    In fact it may get the developer out of a lot of work especially if people offer it up for download and no licensing things are added.
    * API for 3D models that could be add,modified that could be used on server would basically get a storm of new content without any work required by developer.
    It's similar to loading pictures I see all the amazing thing that does as a 2D custom image.
    Especially if API is simple to use with instructions such as simply placing items in folders, of course easily usable on server side that models/textures auto downloads to clients as they login.

    I myself am really looking forward to adding in custom models an easy to use API would be just the thing however from a developers point of view you could also easily lose control of your creation. If you had similar features in mind to what some one else beat you to doing for example everyone gets use to the modded way and your way no matter how insightful comes out as awkward and unusual because the player is already predisposed towards something else.
    At the same time I really would like an API to add in various cultural behaviors to say Bandits as they are confirmed as well as races in general just so I can have Goblin minions.

    Quote from Moderndaybardx

    from a developers point of view you could also easily lose control of your creation.


    Of course that's the point I think. I am pretty sure "RED" Developers also wants us to have fun on his game and get a modding community started that's why he's doing an API. Why would a developers point of view be different from his users aka gamer's point of view.


    Rhetorical question, Do you think 'Minecraft' cares if people write 200 mods for their game or FTB exists? No. Because that's just free content Microsoft doesn't have to work on yet still get all the revenue and benefits from that existing. Since you got 4 gigs of content for free because base game allowed mods to be use in it much easier than most games. Even now Minecraft after it sold to Microsoft, the new developers are still working on it's API to make it better for more mods. They want you to do whatever you can in Minecraft that doesn't break copy write laws for content. Unfortunately the original Minecraft game had to undergo a lot of changes even causing some mods to quit because it's base API was almost non existent an external force forge had to manage each other's mods to even work together. That's not a good design I don't think the developers foresaw people hacking their game.


    When I develop software I never assume what's easiest or correct for me, I always think about end users point of view. I want the end users happy. I always try to think all the possibilities in various methods usually there's lots of methods if your dumb you will be limited in your thinking, if you have a high IQ you can think of dozens of things and methods before even beginning. What would the stupidest person do? What would be the most intuitive way to do this? What would be the smartest method? What are people use to? Who all has done this before and how can I make it better? What is the experience and interface for the end user. What will a veteran at computers assume? I don't ever think it's end users fault if they don't do as I intended. I know there are various levels of IQ differences, if I see a high number of people doing something unintended I go back and try to fix any issue making it more clear, having tool-tips, changing colors, resizing, move position all things have to be considered. Especially if it's a number of users doing that not just one. This is just only me writing about interface.


    A developer has tons of unseen code too. Where that code can make your life a living hell, If he starts off a program on a bad foundation. He will have performance issues bad methods, not catching a mistake in methodology can haunt him even years later in that program. Such as a sorting algorithm, math mistakes, or increasing the programs complexity on something could have been very simple. I don't know how many times I done complicated methods that could of been much simpler and less time consuming. If I had thought of a better method before I started going down a mediocre method which I thought was best. Of course that's the thing with IQ and wisdom to remember things you did prior years applying that knowledge to your current project to pick the best methods you have learned.


    When i make software for different parts of world I even have to make it simpler since lower IQ people in different countries. I make the PC people go crazy X/ . PC X/ people not all people are same we have different (strength, height, weight, metabolism, sex drive, and of COURSE IQ) no matter what environment you put a stupid person into he's still stupid just as a tall person is same height in Africa as in Europe. And by far men's IQ they have a wider IQ bell curve than women so there are a lot more smarter men and a lot more dumber men where as women tend to be average. When you import refugees and immigrants from dumb countries your entire country becomes stupider less productive for generations to come. :thumbdown:https://www.frieord.no/wp-cont…oads/2015/04/IQscores.png So when I do software development for other countries I have to always keep that IQ in mind it's rather annoying <X for me as a computer programmer to have to explain why I change something to marketers or non-technical people that their lack of knowledge about IQ, cultures and aggression in some other countries is reason the interface will not work there. I know based on the complaints. It won't work general population as an interface only for smarter people in those regions. Anyways I got off topic lol. I sometimes vent here, <3 lol.

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