Miwarre, Your not missing the complexity of water or the difficulty involved especially if you treated a video game as actual water rather than treating water as blocks.
I don't really know if this discussion will go anywhere because of the complexity involved in it and Red might just not do custom vehicles or boats in first place but I assure you if you create a mask for the boat from the original blue print it's just a floating 3d object inside the world doesn't mater what outside that blue print you keep the mask inside the boat.
If you put mice into a pickle jar I created an in verses out. A mask as it was a world onto itself.
It wouldn't matter if my blueprint is cubic, but first I switch all the water & air to special blocks. Erase any water blocks from that mask, I will just call these erase blocks ALPHA blocks which are allowed to fill up with water or land sort of the way air blocks do for blueprints now. I will create new type of block FIX air blocks.
Put simply there is already masks in the game where blocks and terrain appear to be separate medium. Since land verses block is already defined differently I presume water will be too. The presumption is based on devs own statement of I will make water blocks and swim animations for our avatars. But if I was developer I do flying and driving first vehicles since it's easiest then tackle water.
I choosing to switch this entire technical discussion from boats to land vehicles for simplification.
I hope you believe that custom vehicles could be done with air blocks verses non-air blocks already?
Because that's clearly already done at a basic level it's only that we don't have blueprints moving in smooth animations, you can see this with your blueprint as you move it or with the drawbridge as you ride it going down. However blueprints I realize is also in an unfinished state even for Alpha because no degree of rotation is found not even 90,180,270. So that's a work in progress.
I assume you pasted blue prints before. As you paste them what happens Air blocks are clearly ignored pasted over the top is your blue print blocks and in the cases you have blocks there the air blocks are filled in with your blueprint. In the case of (boats/trains/vehicles) Air blocks will have to be kept to keep it free as it travels in water. Because right now there is a mask, I am assuming between voxel land and blocks already in the game and they are not the same thing. This why voxel land doesn't get put into blueprints it's ignored / masked out of blueprints.
I might be wrong, but I have the impression that discriminating the inside from the outside of any reasonably shaped boat/ship moving around (to keep it free from water) is going to be quite heavy computationally (and detecting leaks is going to be very heavy!).
As a reference, currently the code does not stops light flow (which is comparable) even within orthogonally placed walls/planks.
First of all my suggestion is not any different from your character falling through the floor when you walk on drawbridge as it moves.
1. This reference to "current code as an argument such as light flow" This is not an argument.
2. You don't actually have to calculate (LEAKS) or (particles) as if real world physics applies to any game, in fact there is always some physics ignored in all games.
To counter the (leaks critics), I want to say the problem doesn't exist you simply check upon blueprint boat creation (what is in air) & (what isn't above the water) every brick below the water is marked as below water brick and everything above is marked as above water.
The simplest answer to critics you never have to calculate waterflow while driving your boat the water calculation was already done before you ever moved the boat. This is not a real boat no hole or damage can appear while driving it. I don't know why people always think the most complicated problems require complicated solutions, Miwarre admitted he was unsure I must give him stars for that.
Of course my boat example I gave is more difficult than doing what other examples I proposed included (train, car, airplane) but essential I was giving an summarized example.
Perhaps I should of started with a car example: Since it's so much easier for you non-programmers to understand. You do same steps as above but simply keep it on the surface of land not allowing it to go below the surface it becomes an entity no different than your avatar except it has controls and shape that is unique to your car.
The only reason water is more difficult for some to grasp because you have three surfaces rather than just two on land you have (land/air) when you go to boat you have (air/water/land) your blueprint boat will be floating on a plane of water which has to be aware of things below surface & above when the water below turns into land to stop the boat from going onto shore. But you never have to compute any leaks on anything except when the blueprint was computed, your obviously thinking real world rather than virtual world. I am simply going to be moving 3d entity (boat) across a plane (water surface). No different than any other 3D game. All you need to do is compute where was the water level when you created the blueprint above or below surface of water (keep bricks above) and (below surface). Hence only compute one PLANE of water keeping in on (x,y) or in his game (z) ever for model. The only real time calculations you have to do would be check the direction it is moving if there is land in that direction to stop movement of your blueprint.
CPU not that much?
Why? I see some of you are assuming it's huge CPU, it's almost no difference than you rotating around as individual custom avatar your spinning the visual references around back to user, the only reference as to a problem I could foresee was memory, I was only referring to if you made the object so big let's say size of max blueprint you have to keep that in memory or send that object to nearby clients on the server. The exterior shape as you moved it for everyone on the server who is riding inside it or it smashing into things. Of course if those were relatively small blue prints there would be no problem doing that in-fact anyone who's played grand theft auto can see you can ride on cars. You make the player who sits in the chair the entity (ship,car,train, plane) It be easier if everyone of course in the ship/train/car while moving would have to be in one of the seats then you wouldn't have to worry about entities inside of entities which we can see from blueprints not keeping items in chests doesn't have hierarchy recursion.
If the programmer allowed passengers to move around you have to keep track of two things at once the passengers inside your ship relative to the motion of the entity they are riding in which I think will have to be done anyways. For example your driving Grand Theft auto and your standing on the hood then run to back of car. Requires that you calculate the current motion of avatar and the entity the avatar is standing on relative to the world.
Or if they don't go that customized creation route for (boats,cars,trains) it's fine I wouldn't mind static predefined sail boats, cars, trains either but that's going to change any of the checks in entities movements the problems are still there.
I mentioned this in my suggestions awhile ago. I thought about the blue print function that the game already has in place. You could use two or three or only one blue prints if wanted it animated but if not you could use only one blue print. Of course this once he gets blue prints to rotate 90,180,270
1. Create a structure (aircraft/automobile/train/boat) we will assume ours is a BOAT
2. Add a special CHAIR or STEERING WHEEL in BOAT ... This CHAIR will be the control station of your BOAT
3. Highlight everything of that BOAT
4. Create (aircraft/automobile/train/boat) BLUE PRINT of BOAT which limits it to floating on water.
5. The BOAT is now like any other blocks it just sits there until you sit in special CHAIR on that BOAT.
6. Sit in CHAIR --> BOAT becomes an ENTITY on back end just like a new body you float BOAT on the ocean.
7. When you want to park it into current position you stand up.
8. As you stand up from CHAIR the BOAT is PASTED like a blue print on-top of the water position if not in protected area.
9. Of course it has some difficulty since if your at a half angle it have to turn you 90,180,270, 0 degrees or whatever works.
10. Or instead of doing step 8,9. it could remain an entity for all time BOAT would be drive-able but I don't know about the memory requirement for that,
Some memory issues may occur if its an entity, so you have to limit the (aircraft/automobile/train/boat) BLUE PRINT SIZE along with how many each user could have at one time.
Alright, I'm avoiding political discussions here. But thankyou for clarifying the image. It made me think how cool it would be to see Locke from Lost ride on a polar bear.
Yeah I also like Lord of Rings when they ride animals / trees and use rabbits as a sled.
That would be pretty unique to have a stage coach that could hook up every type of animal to the front. But overall the stage coach controls would all be the same just different animals on front like bear / tiger / dogs / elephant extra. But this is water update forum so that's off topic for this lol.
Zfoxfire, You obvious aren't paying attention to world events in last decade, lol. it's a composite photo, Putin the Russian President.
I didn't mean to actually troll people but apparently I did. Damn, I am old I remember Reagan vs Soviets now we got our own Communists in government. Always study history think with logic not emotion or you end up a Communist or Socialist too. lol
You want a teaser photo look at this. Zfoxfire, I imagine Red is doing this without you.
We are not all shitting on minecraft vanilla. At least I am not shitting on Minecraft for it's original iteration, I think it was a rebirth of building games and possibly the birth of modern survival games. My complaints were Minecraft had 10 years and now $2,500,000,000 USD and I personally can't see much difference between 2008 version and 2016 version. MODers that made the game fun never got paid had more upgrades to the game than people in charge of it. I just thought of it as a sadder version of blizzard making same game over and over again yet taking millions and 10 years to do the same game over and over again. I know they are laughing all the way to bank but I am not shitting on Minecraft Vanilla for it's first release I am shitting on it for 10 years of stale content. I say rising world is superior to minecraft in many respects yet Red never had billions, dozens of employees, or 10 years to work on his content I am glad Red will eventually carve a slice of the market. I am not a hater of Minecraft I got my money out of that game with the modding community. I could give list long as my arm of games I bought and played less than 10 hours and Minecraft which I bought in 2008 for $15 would not be on that list. In fact with the free ugrades Minecraft offers and Mod community makes the game worth the replay ability and price.
Well, I mean in minecraft you'd get villages, temples and dungeons generate randomly. i don't see why some kind of ice palace couldn't auto generate as well. I know the ice biomes in minecraft are pretty rare but I am pretty sure that even Minecraft doesn't have ice palaces. So I'm totally for doing a +1 on that game
Yeah it be unique and awesome if you had the blocks to do that or it auto-generated. I don't even think mods have those. I seen a bunch of other mods do things to deserts, grasslands, and adding new biomes but not that I ever remember anything to ice biomes.
I haven't seen any yeti or bigfoots yet lol!
Or fight the witch Elsa! I be down for killing a frozen witch lol.
Do we have any Frozen fans, or Empire Strikes back!
ArcticuKitsu - Boats in minecraft is no more so fragile, they fix it in 1.9+ other bugs with boat fixed too.
YakMe - yes no one can take chest on a horse, but you can put chest on a donkey, and it was when horse appear!
Yeah sorry I didn't play vanilla minecraft since 2008 only MODs . I am like direwolf20 when he saw a new flower from vanilla he saw the flower He said "What mod is this from", I laughed on that video of him playing as he tried to figure use waila to id the MOD, because it's so true what the hell is minecraft without mods I wouldn't even play it, I actually wait for several versions to pass before I replay minecraft, even with mods I get bored. I like this game much better than vanilla minecraft hands down even with mods I like this game since better textures and building.
A fortress of solitude would be an awesome generated NPC structure in arctic biomes And yes, I like the glowy pink stuff too. It reminds me of that time I felt indigestion one day at the chemical lab so I reached for Pepto Bismo in the cabinet only that's not what it was. One of the scientist left an experimental sample in there. I drank a cup of that glowy pink goo and transformed into... Fabulous Radioactive Gay Man!!!
Before it wore off, I cerainly looked better in tights than Christopher Reeve
I never thought of it as a snow biome but that would be cool as you said a giant ice fortress on surface randomly. I hated living in snow in Minecraft with Mods all my things get covered in snow lol.
But I love to have a giant ice fort that be cool to have polar bears or fantasy mobs like yeti to clear out then you take it over.
This is similar to my homeworld of Krypton
Your welcome to see my fortress of solitude before I am married and it gets redecorated because the Mrs. wants to look like the Jone's house.
To be honest thou down just before hitting hell the pink glowing stone is pretty damn cool already.
ArcticuKitsu, Your correct I was basically saying I rather load a mod than use vanilla travel methods other than perhaps minecarts. Horses had no increase in inventory no bags on horse or carts. I rather had a stage coach or something like a which two could ride on stage coach or put inventory on the stagecoach like a chest. Or both systems it's fine. But IMO they are lazy at Mojang now Microsoft as ArcticuKitsu pointed out. I think the company is dead of new innovation and new ideas other than modding community. It's just a big machine with deep pockets with a very small will or heart left.
I think that's why a lot of us love this game Red and this community still has heart and is not yet set in stone. I also agree with ArcticuKitsu, Red51 seems to think a little more before just doing something. I can see this from blueprints, 3d Models, and the Upload JPG/PNG files from clients machines which is all much better than minecraft. I also see that Red is willing to switch things like LUA to Java even if it's in place that's a person who can change when a better idea comes into his head for better API. Also from reading Red's comments his ideas are 10 steps ahead of his current code.
I imagine that some other stuff will be bundled in with water, e.g. some fish, a fishing rod, a simple boat, a bucket, and the ability to boil water for potability or crafting teas.
But that's just my guess
zfoxfire, I am sure Red51 will do boats when he does cars I don't see any difference in those two functionality wise other than models. But the fact that you can ride a draw bridge down tells me he's going to be able to do that with all mediums (air, water, land) perhaps once you get into the sitting position like a chair, it allows you to drive the model.
I just hope the models are big enough or could be changed via API for a bunch of people's preferences something like minecrafts Ship Mod, Automobile,Train mods, and airplane. I don't want a tiny row boat only I can fit in. I think minecraft failed utterly in boats and horses. I got so annoyed that even if you dock boats in minecraft they explode.
I think trains of course will be little easier and nicer since you have tracks and the shifting of the train model only onto the next track avoiding steering (left,right) simply a forward, stop, reverse. You could load up various different types of train cars onto back of the engine providing filling stations for (ore, livestock, passenger, grain, finished products, oil) each train car specifically designed and each one following the engine it's connected to. Or simply have an engine for a long time before adding in cars behind the engine.
Or if there was a float block that would always end on surface of the water and allow us to build things above that block always floated so we could make our own float-able boats eventually with those blocks below that connected structure would be controllable like Archimedes in Minecraft of course Archimedes mod was bugged since as you halted your ship it wouldn't keep the rotation of your blocks with the new direction you parked in.
Yeah that is nice, I wish that well / fountains were objects in-game, I put that in my castle. I still haven't figured out the cylinder or semi arches or circle tricks.
Your pets will be happy, as we see evident last time your cats had a bath.
Our cat's clearly are overjoyed and can't wait for the water.
Yeah I am on SilverSatin's server as RedTon, he is admin there I know he's a nice guy and would help people out like me. I understand why the servers are like that since a player can steal others work + paste a blue print in areas not zoned for them destroying others work. I also think we are all saying similar things just in different ways.
Blueprints permissions a few settings with a few choices
1. Save -Allow / Forbid / or Restrictive based on Block Protection
2. Use - Allow / Forbid / or Restrictive based on Block Protection
3. External Clients Blueprints - Allow / Forbid <-- If you don't want players to use their local blueprints.
Example: for rendering Developer API for rendering custom world Templates
(*This somewhat indirectly has been done with fixing the blueprint allowing us to drop down entire towns. Allowing erasing of Terrain that was formally preventing this.)
However to do as a world generator is still not done.
Then as the world generates creates Structures as specified. In that example each cluster has 2% chance to use church blueprint on 5 blocks below surface.
Nice Ironically that's what I was working on my single player game but you did it. It's so nice.
I don't wish for that but if they spawn wherever there is dirt / sand aka non blocks are would be fine.
I wish a lot of things with animals
I think we all know that each entity animal will have an AI eventually.
It be more funny if the Racoon went after you Christmas Presents.