Mob's and NPC's

  • Human NPCs are coming with the character updates. Some will be hostile always and others only when approached. Some are merchants or thieves. Wolves have been discussed but I dont know what the plans are for that. Id love to see wolf packs in the winter biome. I'd totally be up for wild boars


    Monsters i think will be restricted to dungeons and hell.

  • Bears & Tigers, you mean. But ya. Everything Zork said also that we'll even get the angry lumber jack & such.


    We'll be getting bandits, yet be interesting to see barbarians tribes, regardless of the timeline. Mountain lion, wolves/wolve packs, & wild boars would be highly awesome & much welcomed. I'd happily welcome wolf packs, yet they'd have to be presence based provoked if they're to be added. The longer you linger the more likely they're to attack. Same with bears.


    I wanted some roaming mini-bosses for the main world but people kept throwing tantrums that they're contained to dungeons. I'm still bitter about this because people ruined a nice survival moment, yet it's been turned more into Indiana Jones styles.........Yes, it's tedious yet there's always ways to push them to the side, yet they still push against having hostile mobs in survival roaming top-side. I hate that.

  • We'll be getting bandits, yet be interesting to see barbarians tribes, regardless of the timeline. Mountain lion, wolves/wolve packs, & wild boars would be highly awesome & much welcomed. I'd happily welcome wolf packs, yet they'd have to be presence based provoked if they're to be added. The longer you linger the more likely they're to attack. Same with bears.


    I wanted some roaming mini-bosses for the main world but people kept throwing tantrums that they're contained to dungeons. I'm still bitter about this because people ruined a nice survival moment, yet it's been turned more into Indiana Jones styles.........Yes, it's tedious yet there's always ways to push them to the side, yet they still push against having hostile mobs in survival roaming top-side. I hate that.


    I am one of those "against"; if I ruined -- or helped ruining -- anything for anybody, I am sorry, it was not my intention. I have repeated several times that fighting bosses, monsters, bandits (bandits? from where?) and the like is neither my idea of survival nor, in my opinion, really fitting the current RW paradigm.


    I would welcome a more strict progression of hunger and thirst (living in good health with 4 apples and 2 tomatoes a day is both too easy and unrealistic, even if I like the possibility of a vegetarian diet); some effect of biome climate (temperature, etc.) and health on the character stats and performance; even the occasional wild beast, with some caveats (see below). But turning RW into a fighting game would not appeal to me at all, and possibly to other too.


    As I understand there are other perspectives, as much legitimate as mine, I would not mind any of these FPS-like additions, if they are optional and can be turned off on a per-world basis, as it already happens for other world parameters.


    The caveat I was referring to above: a single human being is totally helpless against a bear, a tiger or a lion, unless he has very advanced range weapons. He cannot even run away, as those beasts can easily outrun him.


    Either the RW character is turned into a super-hero with super-powers or a band of 12 to 20 peoples is required to hunt one of them, as it happened in pre-modern civilisations, using techniques and tactics which assumed a given, species-specific, behaviour from the hunted beast. If RW is going to implement this species-specific AI into the wild beasts and a reasonable number of peoples is easily available on servers, then this would make sense, otherwise even wild beasts would only be another kind of "magic mobs" in disguise.


    Of course, these are just my 0.02 €...

  • Paranoia again. As before, and again. Paranoia.


    The way I had it in Minecraft Feed The Beaset wasn't supernatural, just something where you had to build a fort to fend off the threads + have light sources to push them aside. Once I got necessary weapons I managed to slice up the threats with outright ease that even evolved zombies were of no pain (compare to bandits & angry lumberjacks). At first we (we \ 3) struggled, yet we managed to get a good foothold that our once war-torn lands became a peaceful land of progress and prosperity. Again, if you know their weaknesses you can use that to push them at bay. The world feels empty without threats that even Tigers & bears won't do. The feeling you get for liberating land & colonizing is priceless awesome. it feels awesome calling it your own after working it.


    As for bandit camps I'm going to assume they're simply in 'pre-placed' positions around the map, similar to how water is spawned in the water to drink. Just like that. We'll be having swords, crossbows, bows & arrows, among many another neat weaponry. I'm sure you can fend them off yourself, yet having friends would be nice to ease up on any attrition issues. Needing 12 to 20 people is paranoia again. Knock it off with the paranoia.....Though, having these species-specific AI should be sweet & such. Hoping Red51 can work his way towards that to allow animal herding & wolfpacks.


    Rising World is still survival, as with building, yet when you have weapons you need to naturally make use of them also. Saying we shouldn't have any hostiles to attack them with our weapons is silly & viewed as paranoia. Luckily we have those various filters & options to play with that we can all play the way we want. Just toggle it off while I try to experiment, if we ever do take that route. If there's a will, there's a way to survive. Humans have always adapted to their surroundings so it's only natural that we should be able to in Rising World also in various ways. We humans aren't stupid, maybe becoming highly lethargic as a whole.


    Not wanting to insult you or come off as arrogant, yet just trying to put things into perspective that any fears should be put aside also. *shrug*

  • Of course, you are totally free to call it paranoia, please bear (pun not intended, or perhaps yes!) with me if I call it common sense. We'll have swords, cross bows and, who knows, machine guns. At the same time, I read that we will start with more or less a stick and a stone.


    A sword against a bear or a lion is almost useless; a cross bow is useful, but perhaps a sizeable amount of game time will be needed until this technology is developed; in the meantime, any approaching big beast will be fatal. In any case, the game will amount to a rush to develop weapon technology, which is a very limited perspective, compared with even today, alpha Rising World: I might find interesting doing it once, perhaps twice; the fourth time would be utterly boring. Unless...


    Unless the bear and the lion look like a bear or a lion but act like a small size dog or a cat, the human character is super-powered and can kill a big beast simply by throwing rocks, the recharge time of a cross bow is laughably short and so on. In practice, if the whole thing makes little sense and boils down to magic in disguise.


    About the groups I described above: look at civilisations which only have short bows and spears (a few still remain or were at least documented before disappearing) and how they hunt large aggressive beasts; they do in group of 12-15-20: some try to push the beast toward a suitable place, some try to consume its strength and focus with dispersed attacks and finally some will, with some luck, kill it. And it seems the game will start at even a lower level than that. A single human being without a strong, quick, long range weapon against a lion is simply dead.


  • Nah, that's no common sense. Paranoia. You also slipped by mentioning machine guns when we're only going up to pistols & muskets, nothing more. There's no Battlefield 1942, 2, 2142, or any Call of Duty crap here.


    Managed to keep myself well defended against Tigers so swords are useful there, yet you'll be happy with crossbows & such, so I'll let you have that one. If there's rushing then I blame the player, not the game, because I've always seen them whine & moan while hiding in creative mode. The meat of the game is there, yet they always hide away, or go straight for the goodies by taking the lazy route. Players ruin very good things, as with how they swarm & mob things. I've seen many games having good concepts ruined by people themselves that I generally hate humans as a whole.



    For the third paragraph you'd be lucky this is Red51, Rising World, and still in testing because everything can be appropriately changed, tweaked, and even alterable at your will. Seeing as how Red51 is wanting to go towards realism I'd give the crossbow a good 5-10 second delay per loading & firing, the same with how long it takes to fill a bucket. I see no magic here. As for throwing rocks comment I'd expect it to do trivial (pointless) damage. Seeing as how you're already doing worthless damage with a pickaxe & such, that's what I'd expect with rocks in Rising World.



    Noted. Well, then focus on finding the lone animals in the group. Don't go straight for the herd, or the most powerful. Focus on what you can kill, and kill it. You learn this in Silent HUnter 3 with the same logic of hunting what you can, then reaping the rewards from such. Once you gain access to NPC buddies & friends then that's all fine & dandy to go hunting the groups of animals, or the most stubborn & aggressive type. Nothing wrong there.


    ------


    Edit: I guess I'm now being insulting, yet that's how much it's bothering me now with how silly this is getting. So much fear over something natural, yet it's being treated as something insanely hardcore when it truly isn't.

  • As thing are getting personal and apparently I am not able to explain myself, or my attempt to see the whole of the game as it seems to be expected to come out from comments and hints, or my occasional hyperbole (as the machine gun detail was), I think it is now better to agree we disagree and go on.

  • Miwarre,
    Apparently a cross bow is planned already. Not sure when but I've seen a game model for it already. I look forward to that because as you said, short-range weapons against a large predatorial animal are pretty futile. We need ranged weapons for sure.


    I'm pretty sure Red's intention with bosses and monsters is to keep them confined to dungeons and Hell. The wandering thief NPC would probably be the only one to watch out for, if I'm undestanding his intentions correctly. I guess we will know for sure in a month or two :)

  • Ya, this whole argument is irrelevent & trivial so I don't see why it's going on. You already won & I lost, while I feel i"m being made out to be an idiot seeking out a simple feature which is viewed by hardcore by a 'lazy' gaming group. zfoxfire mentions why you've won so don't act defeated. zfoxfire is the new "voice of reason" here.


    Miwarre,
    Apparently a cross bow is planned already. Not sure when but I've seen a game model for it already. I look forward to that because as you said, short-range weapons against a large predatorial animal are pretty futile. We need ranged weapons for sure.


    I'm pretty sure Red's intention with bosses and monsters is to keep them confined to dungeons and Hell. The wandering thief NPC would probably be the only one to watch out for, if I'm understanding his intentions correctly. I guess we will know for sure in a month or two :)


    Ya, everything you said......Luckily, this is Rising World so everything is neat in this game. What isn't we voice our opinions on. They'll be indeed contained in Hell & Dungeons, yet finding it stupid how they are because it takes away from the top side with the odd roamers & lurkers to keep you on your toes. It feels voided & Indiana Jones style where you have to go looking for trouble instead of trouble seeking you naturally. But hey, whatever. I'm a rude troll :rolleyes:


    Now that Mii & Zork won let's just see what Red51 has so we can have fun with that to then build off of that.

  • Arctic,


    This is just a discussion. There's no right or wrong, nor any winners or losers. Whatever we discuss, its up to Red to decide what and how to implement and if we don't like what he does then its up to any future mod to change it. I think your statement here is a bit exagurrated: "I wanted some roaming mini-bosses for the main world but people kept throwing tantrums that they're contained to dungeons"


    Nobody is throwing tantrums here. We're just repeating what we understand to be the will of Red51 (that sounds religious).


    So being the "voice of reason", lets see if I can bridge this gap a bit....


    I admit it will be strange if some kind of agressive monster roaming around. Even a agressive thief or raider trying to raid my base and steal my stuff seems out of place for Rising World but my view (and probably Miwarre's too) is likely biased because our opinion of what the Rising World "feel" ought to be is based on its current implementation. I guess that's another drawback of getting involved in early access games is that the entire feel of the game could change completely. Rising World has always been a laid back casual crafting game. It's atmosphere is relaxing. If we had placeholders for mobs (which could have been implemented earlier using the old character models and some additional coding) then we likely wouldnt be having this discussion right now.


    I think the decision to keep most agressive "monsters" limited to dungeons is a smart move by Red in order to maintain the feel of the game for the most part. However, it certainly wouldnt hurt to have an option (I'm all about flexibility in games) to turn on all the nasties roaming the overworld and out to get you ;)


    What might be a better idea is to have monsters above ground but only in areas where dungeons are. Basically give them their own territory. It doesnt make sense how in other games like Minecraft that these skeletons and creepers go out of their way to get you. If you're literally the only food source for them then the whole species would go extinct!. Same with whatever upcoming monsters in the dungeons, orcs for example I'm assuming. The orcs have their own land and wont go out of their way to bother you as long as you are far enough away from their territory. This would probably work better than my idea of a "dungeon detector" tool I suggested recently.. If you stumble upon a region with orcs roaming on the surface then you better start exploring the caves nearby if you want to find a dungeon :)


    The thief or raider is different from the orc tribe. A thief is only wanting to get something of value that you have. They arent "monsters" that are going to come out to get you in hoards like in 7D2D or pretty much any other "us vs. them" game. So even if a monster was roaming around and attacked you, it would probably be something rare. I'd be open to the idea of a wandering monster getting aggressive but there has to be reasons for why he would be doing so. Perhaps he wandered from his tribe and got lost. Maybe he is an outcast. Maybe he is hungry and wants to eat you. Whatever the reason is, its going to probably be a rare occurrence. So if Red does decide to implement monsters and raiders in this fashion then I'd be ok with it. If raiders operate out of an established base then it would be smart not to build far away from them and not to highlight your house in torches or build your house underground with a hidden entrance.


    We have options to turn on or off every animal in the game. The current implementation seems rather pointless. I'd like to see this consolidated a bit. We should be able to turn on/off peaceful NPCs, agressive animal NPCs, monsters, and agressive human NPS (angry lumberjack, raiders, thieves).

  • The conflict is that I'm used to being harassed in survival games that I've grown to be defensive when surviving that I've gained reflexes & senses that I don't find anything of this sort "strange" or "alien". You can still build peacefully, yet first have to earn what you own to do so. This is Rising World with 98% animals & 2% hostile bandits that you'll still have your creative mode style quietness & calmness. Expect the unexpected though, such as the chest-raiding Racoons among others. Minecraft, Skyrim, & Silent Hunter 3 tought me that when you don't keep an eye at your back that there's a big chunk of gameplay missing from the game & that you're really not being kept in check. Not hardcore, just keeping your figurative blade sharpened. If you're not being harassed in some way then you're not really playing. Both vanilla & modding made you tough so you could survive anything, and I'm still managing to make the most of everything in the world. Minecraft may be a "kids" game, yet it went out of its way to make me learn how to keep these mobs out of the way by making chests full of stone swords (nothing less), a few iron swords, or even specially enchanted diamond swords. That, and you'd have to strafe (before the combat update) that you could dispatch these hostiles easily. That, and to just light up, wall up, and just make sure the area is unclaimable by hostile entities.


    Think of it like the campfire that keeps wolves at bay, or some kind of relic that would keep monsters & such at bay. the campfire + wolves bit was constantly suggested & brought up with how to deal with hostiles. I'll however agree that Creepers, Skeletons, & zombies are "out of place" in Minecraft, yet that's Minecraft. It's supposed to be that silly to keep things gameplay challenging, if done crudely by the lazy Mojang.


    I don't find it weird how there would be a 'few' (as in 1-2 every 3 hours; average session) roaming around the world. That's just an example, yet where this is basicalyl going with the frequency of these roamers, maybe even once every 3 average sessions of 3 hours. Basically 1 with a 50% chance to appear anywhere top side every 4:59 hours, or so (whatever I noted tree growth as). Again, having survived the hell in Minecraft vanilla, and more severely in 'Feed The Beast' that Rising World shall be a cake walk that there shouldn't be any push backs to this thought. More so when we're getting access to bows & arrows, crossbows, among muskets & pistols that any roaming hostile would be dispatched with ease. Even if there's herding, or not. A simple iron sword would slay them also. I've survived (with a group of friends) building up my starting place on an FTB server with zombies, skeletons, mutant zombies, & etc attacking us while we walled off the area with fences & built our home up. It became a tranquil place after that I really see no issue with. Just get yourself some iron & an iron sword then you'd be fine & home free. Having a crossbow & musket/pistol in hand would be wise, or just travel where you know its safe. Always be prepared. Then get yourself a bow & arrow or a spear. Maybe even a lance, if Red51 wants to have fun with lances.


    Again, luckily we have filters & luckily Zork is trying to keep things neutral by bridging things.


    -------------


    While thinking of how to attack hostiles makes me wonder if we can use horse equipment while on foot. Would you find this "too alien" or weird?



    Do you want to approve or disapprove of having this only on horses? In the anime world this lance & shield has become just as standard as a sword & shield that I wouldn't mind seeing it used off horses. It's up to you because change in games is often shunned that if Red51 was to listen to such that the game wouldn't update properly. Minecraft is cursed & tainted by people going "THIS UPDATE SUCKS! MIINECRAFT IS RUINED!?!!!!" after every single update. :S WHat I meant to say is if you approve of it or not while trying to seek a real-world counterpart of some improvising when knocked off, or similar. I believe it wouldn't hurt to have some 'experimental' weapons of medieval weapons (realistic of course), something seen in fantasy. That fine, or nah?


    I may have to do more digging if any have been used, yet I think it's only spears & shield, not lance & shield. And I do apologize for my hostilities, yet that it's now a cheapened apology because I keep having to say it a lot that it's not really going to be counted.

  • Si'nce I'm not really much of a builder on this game, I'm totally looking forward to more survival and I'm welcome to anything where I have to defend my base. All I care is that the options are there to turn it up or down based on personal preference. Just like how we have the option to turn off bears, other hostiles should be changed and maybe frequency of their appearances should be an option as well. That way nobody is really excluded here.

  • Alright, one thing I'm going to do from now on is stay out of any 'serious' discussion threads because I keep ruining them. You guys can have at them.


    And that's the way to do it with the filters & such. Just play your style while ticking on & off the filters. If you don't want mobs roaming then hit that box because that's something Red51 made to allow all of us to play in this adaptive game for all. We can all play in our own lovely style that I also think of Skyrim with the MCM menu to change each and every little value modders have thought of. It's awesome.


    Again, I do apologise for any hostilities yet just wanting to keep Rising World awesome while a bit bothered what I view as paranoia. I'm just going to follow Fox's lead now by defusing any thoughts on my end.

  • This is my last reply (last famous word...! :/ ), as I don't like the bitter taste this seems to leave. As @ArcticuKitsu rightly points out, many of the points he is raising are common in other games -- and he quotes a few of them.


    This is precisely an important part of what I am trying to say (without success, apparently): the dungeon-mobs-raiders-creepers-... model is implemented in countless games out there; I grew fed up of this kind of games almost twenty years ago, I would find an n-th repetition uninteresting and eventually boring and I hoped for something different. If it would be fun for someone else, fine! Everybody is entitled of his opinion.


    I am not necessarily after a relaxing, 'easy', unchallenging game; rather, I hope for a different model; it might be in the direction of 'realism' (even taking into account that virtual realism always requires quotes); it might include better physiology (how comes that you get equally hungry and thirsty by doing nothing, by walking, by running and by mining? or that freezing Arctic biome or very hot savannah do not affect your stats at all?); it might be something entirely different I cannot even think of and someone else may pop out with. But, please, please, not the same old game structure once again!


    Personally, I would appreciate something which makes sense, where things do not pop up casually and obviously randomly, but have a sensible origin and a sensible goal, where actions count and have mid-to-long term consequences; where, for instance, the "civilisation progress" model which seems will be implemented and the surrounding world challenges integrate and do not stump on each other; and so on.


    Actual reality (either modern or historical) is the easiest meter we have for this. But if someone comes out with a totally fantastic world which still sticks together and does not look as a hodge-podge of 'funny' things strung together casually, the result might still be great.


    Lastly, about @zfoxfire sentence: "We're just repeating what we understand to be the will of Red51". I have great respect and appreciation for @red51 and the dev team as a whole, for the great job they did so far and, of course, this is their game and their ideas have precedence and the last word is their. Still, one of the points of joining an alpha project is the possibility to voice one's opinion and see if it might be of some relevance for the next development stages.


    M.


    P.S. About the lances: Not my field and I might easily be wrong, but those look to me like tournament weapons and, if I am not mistaken, to equip them specific rests are needed on the knight's armour front and on the horse harness (if harness is the right English word).

  • All those arguments come from the passion and love for this game we all have.We wouldn't argue If we didn't care.Lets all continue to enjoy it as it gets more and more awesome and remember: We could be in a way worse position: The Blockscape one.1 update every 2 years.Scary!

  • Man, those huge discussions remind me of the good 'ol 2000's, when all we had were forums :)


    Anyway, I see two main "armies" here:


    Arctic, who thinks that the game would be boring without monsters
    and
    Miwarre and fox, who insist that this game should remain relaxed.


    I'll leave my opinion here too, since I'm a member just like any of you :)


    RW is a great sandbox game. I'd call it "Minecraft on steroids". I've played Minecraft, Rust and other sandbox-oid's. Every game has their own pros and cons.
    So here's the first thing I've learned: - There's no "perfect" game.
    There will be always that choice between relaxation and battles.


    For instance, even if you'll make it flexible, this will bring some consequences.
    Any flexibility or modding splits the community. The more options there will be, the more poorly populated servers people will have, each with their own set of options.
    Take MC as an example: it ahs so many mods. The only reason why you don't notice the community split is because there are about 2 millions of active players, spread across the 10.000 servers.


    Past days, I've switched to creative mode when playing RW. I never ever played creative mode in Minecraft (I dislike the sole idea of having infinite stuff, makes things too easy for me), but I just cannot stand the idea of having to bear the long mining speed we've got here in RW. And chopping trees is even less acceptable :/
    So that's what made MC mining interesting: the enchanting table features.
    The concept of progressing, going through lot of mining and leather farming in order to get better gear seems very attractive to me.
    Thanks to the enchanting feature in Minecraft, you could notice the difference between Iron, Diamond and Enchanted gear.


    I think, a great starter for RW would be the capability of upgrading your gear. Go from Iron to Alluminum -> Steel -> something else.
    Make a chainsaw for chopping trees.
    Make some resources rare and give us the ability to craft better gear. That would motivate us to keep mining, farming and gathering resources.


    In my opinion, this would bring more interest to the game and attract more people who are more than FPS fans.
    I mean, I do play FPS. A lot, actually. I just logged off from Planetside 2. So yeah, when I'm in the mood to kill someone, I go to Planetside 2, Mass Effect 3 and so on.
    They already have everything I'd like a FPS to have, and it will be hella hard for RW to beat that.
    So here's where I agree with some folks here: RW is not and will never be a FPS.
    Not that it should not have monsters. RW's caves are scary, and add some additional scariness to them would be fun :)
    But personally I don't see it as a priority.


    RW needs some limitations, something, that would motivate us to mine, to expore, to farm.
    As I've said, the capability to improve your gear with genuinely rare resources would be a great starter.
    That's my opinion.

  • I'm looking forward to NPCs, but I'm also looking forward to the stuff they'll bring to the table in the future. Perhaps we'll have villages and towns of different cultures and technology, for example a small nomadic looking village with tepees or yurts, all the way up to a survival compounds with rifles, electricity and bunkers. Getting harassed by angry natives with bows or having a long range firefight in the forest with muskets or rifles against more modern foes would be interesting to me.


    And then obviously there's the possibility of being friendly with these guys, learning what they know such as how to build yurts from the nomads or learning how to make a generator or a rifle from the survivalists. These are just some ideas, I could go on and talk about more crazy ideas like underground bunkers filled with high tech equipment and scientists or ruined, overgrown towns with some nomads or survivors living in the rubble.

  • Damn it, I've been sidelines again & we now turned this into 'us vs them' stuff.


    Nah, more like people need to be kept on edge by needing to be pushed to build shelter. That, and it adds a bit of "story" which people keep whining these games don't have. Your story is told through how you survived, you telling them on these forums, then having adapted & surprassed these. Basically becoming the 'First Nations', Vikings, or whichever of your land having learnt from your past experiences. Similar to Minecraft mobs, the same can be said for Rising World mobs.


    Whatever we get, we need to be put on guard to stay interested. I felt a nice sense of morale boost when I could loot some Knights in Minecraft, something we need from bandits in Rising World whom would attack us, or some roaming dungeon mini-boss with other goodies. Something Enderman should have been, yet Mojang can't implement what they want.

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