no update

Quote from zfoxfire

...] for slow development blues.[...]

[...] updates are slow. [...]

I am from another generation and my time perception might be different, I know, but I do not feel that updates are slow.

Considering that each update requires updating each server and how this affected the player community in the recent past, and also the amount of user support each update generates (in some case legitimately, but often for peoples who do not bother to read the explanations), the updating rate I have seen since I frequent this community (which is not since very long, I agree) seems to me reasonable/acceptable.

Then, of course, everyone is entitled to have his own perception.

Miwarre,

It is just a perception. Considering that only one person writes the code, the update frequency is perfectly acceptable. I say "slow" because that's going to be the perception of newcomers to this game. It's best to set the expectation than to have people wondering why things are "taking so long". Am I perpetuating it? Probably. I realize the types of updates going on now are complex and probably can't be broken up into smaller updates. I remember after the Water update we got a few tiny updates containing new craftable items which came out real fast. To me, that's what would be preferred. I imagine Rising World development will be "slow" for the remaining of the alpha stage. In beta, focus should be more on tweaking and tuning rather than designing from scratch. Is "slow" a poor choice of words? Perhaps. But as I said, its important to set expectations with the community.

Back in the day, early access would not have been possible so no end users would have experienced the wait time for development. Back then the software was boxed and shipped to stores. Only then did they become available to play. Software updates afterwards would have been rare without Internet. I'm sure it still happened on a small scale over BBS' but that was probably with shareware, not big-box software.

@zfoxfire: possibly I intended a little more than simply "reasonable" given the context (dev team size, etc.) or given the habits of decades ago (which I experienced directly, but I also got accustomed to technology advances...); rather, reasonable for the community.

The suite of small(er) and quick(er) updates after the water update put "out of business" a number of servers (either owners slow in updating, or providers making a mess of it, ...); the server I frequented the most at that time had active and friendly admins, a nice community and so on; after remaining down for several days twice (provider's fault with the updates), most people left, and finally even admins felt less motivated.

I know that some servers are excellently baked by owners/admins who do a very good job of keeping the server working, the world entertaining etc (resulting in a good presence of players). But it should not be a "job", neither for the admins or for the players... at least not yet, while the programme is still under heavy development.

Even on the single player side, a constantly moving target is not necessarily the best option, as user support becomes more complex (regardless it is provided by JIW or by the community) and users felt irritated by things which "do not work" (mostly because they do not read the explanations... explanations which also get dispersed in many announcements and threads). In fact, many of us are still learning how to use the water in terrain design (me included)!

For instance, an update, say, every week would quickly result in a mess: servers never working, players not aligned with the last version, nobody knowing what is new and what was already there, flood of posts in the fora asking for the same details again and again...

So, I believe an update rate not very fast paced is (mostly) positive for the community. Perhaps, there are ways we as a community can adopt to counteract the feeling of being stuck this may occasionally produce on the most impatient (and sometime unreasonable) users.

I probably didn't communicate as well as I could have. I wasn't really complaining which is why I tried to make such a point that nothing is required.

I was more reacting to the way it seemed like the idea of an update was being treated as a joke, or that you would tear into a player for requesting either a clearer timeline or an update on progress. My experience has been that the clearer you can be, and the more you respond to players the more understanding and patient most people are going to be. Especially if the concept is exciting and new.

If people are drawing up sides and either demanding an update, or defending the developer . . . to me that looks like a real problem.

I haven't looked at the API myself. That is more something my partner would want to tear into. My initial thought though is that I'm leery of Java's native ability to deal with objects. It's still probably better than using Lua scripting. I'm really glad this problem is in Red's capable hands and not mine. lol

What's the problem? API was released a few days ago, 2 weeks after the "upcoming" announcement. So what? If the devs give a clearer timeline and don't get updates ready in time, people are getting mad. Jeez, guess it's better they simply stick to "When it's done"...

Hi Winddbourne,

You probably didn't mean ill intentions at all. I should apologize on behalf of myself some others here if you perceived any hostility from us.

The "when's the next update" get's asked alot. I know its a legitimate question but it has been a cause of drama in the past and myself and some others who are a bit outspoken on this forum get sick of it after a while. Typically Rising World updates come around the end of each month and now it's been over one month since the last rollout so we are on edge and expecting some disgruntled players throw hissy fits. I do not believe that this really was your intention but it did strike a chord at the time.

I guess the average gamer really has no clue what's going on behind the scenes which is probably why we get some drama in the first place. I know how hard Red51 works and the monumental efforts needed to make the changes needed. Rising World is a VERY ambitious project and probably too much for just one person to write so it will take a while. So I tend to get defensive whenever I perceive someone trivializing or be-rating the work being done. by the JIW team.

About the Java API, its stil a work in progress for its first release but it looks like a great API. In the long term, it will be the better choice because of its power. LUA certainly easier to use. I think LUA has object oriented capability but its not completely native like it is with JAVA. The decision to go this route was a tough one but necessary. It required lots of time writing new code but if we are to expect to get the kinds of mods we see in Minecraft then this is clearly the best choice. As you may recall Red did make this decision last year to switch from LUA to JAVA. Over the past few months, much time was spent to get the API ready which has caused delays with other features but its going to pay off in the long run

@diegomarino80gongo

I guess we're just highly eager & a bit on edge waiting for the next update. That, and some muscles needing to be flexed....Just your standard reactions in gaming communities with the typical cycle of:

1) Release
2) Enjoy the content
3) Wait for next update
4) Constantly poke & prod where the update is
5) Go back to 1 after a week or so after waiting

Once you catch wind of a new update you REAALLY want it. You really, REALLY want it that it messed up your POV & patience in the update you're in that you want to keep your client up to date to the latest that you stop building, or at least prep for the next update in some way. That's how we become 'on edge', and such. We have intel on dungeons & player models, and we REALLY want it, yet patience can only go so far, as well as Red51's coding abilities. He's only human. It's a vicious cycle, that one.