Update 0.2: Building Update

Quote from Avanar

Take a tube block, activate surface tool and shape it as you need. It works

I do not know how to do it

1. choose a tube block (hollow cylinder) of the desired texture

2. hold it in place with right ctrl key

3. hit the right ALT key (on german keyboard its called "Alt GR") - the top side of the block will turn red

4. use right shift + arrow keys / pgup/dn to alter the shape of the top side

5. experiment a little bit with it and you will find it out. its not difficult - just needs some practice

additional info: if you are not satisfied with the outcome, you can use shift + backspace key to reset the top side. But that works only as long as the AltGR key is activated.

One more info: you can activate and deactivate this mode also via the radial menu.

And also don´t forget to save the settings, if you find one that suits your need, via the radial menu. By that you create your own blockshapes

I just noticed that changes made via the altGR function doesn't get saved via preset. Is that intended, red51 ?

red51 or whoever might know, is water planned for an upcoming release? So far the new RW is looking VERY nice. Thank you.

Quote from SighBorg

red51 or whoever might know, is water planned for an upcoming release? So far the new RW is looking VERY nice. Thank you.

I believe water comes with the world generation update, so a little while away. First we will get multiplayer, afterwards we will get world generation.

Quote from red51

Yes, water is planned, but unfortuantely we have no ETA for that yet. We'll start working on it some time after the multiplayer and world generation update

Thank you. It's well worth the wait.

I love new building update looks great I just was wondering is survival mode will be with multiplayer update or with world generation one cause atm apart from building there's not much to do

Red I was just thinking, is there any plan to scale the resource costs for blocks in survival mode now that they are completely resizable? It is now possible to build huge crude stone structures out of a couple of rocks or the wood from 1 tree. It cant be done at the block crafting stage since the scaling happens after that point, but maybe when you place down the construction element the number of blocks consumed is scaled to their size? For example placing a 1x1x6 beam could take 6 of that block type, where a 1x1x2 would take 2 etc etc.... As we have it now, the resource cost will kind of incentivise huge low detail structures over more interesting high detail builds which IMO is not a good thing. if I build using small blocks I feel like I am just wasting huge amounts of resources.

Quote from red51

We're thinking about adjusting the resource cost depending on the size, at least to a certain degree. This will, however, only cover elements bigger than 1x1x1: When it comes to smaller elements, it's a bit difficult to adjust the costs, since it wouldn't be possible to require less than one block. We could only solve this by using floating values for block stacks (e.g. 1.75 blocks), but I'm not sure if this is a good solution

You could increase the amount of resources, i.e. a 1x1x1 Block costs 10 stones instead of 1 stone. So it would be possible to scale up to 1/10.

Quote from Desmagu

You could increase the amount of resources, i.e. a 1x1x1 Block costs 10 stones instead of 1 stone. So it would be possible to scale up to 1/10.

thats too much. the amount of stone you would need to build a simple small hut would be insane. just another grindfest.

id leave a standard block with the cost of 1 stone. im not sure its really necessary to increase the costs. that will just cause unnecessary grinding for stone and wood. and whats the use? if you want to build a wall of 10x10 blocks you could do it with just 1 block but have only a few docking points, no possibility for a window or door. after all most people will want to add these and producing only large blocks doesn´t help with that.

so people need small blocks as well. and in the end the average (small blocks produced vs large blocks produced) should not be far away from 1 block.

to make it more realistic id still prefer other possibilities. for example:

- a tool in the inventory that allows measuring (tape?) and cutting (saw) or connecting several blocks (i.e. a screwdriver or maybe nails + hammer)

- have a work bench in close proximity

i am also all up for adding more mineral and ore types. i dont like it that we can produce all types of stone blocks from just the standard stone we mine. same for wood of course.

Avanar My suggestion implies that you get more stones from mining to keep the same costs. The only thing that would change ist the max stack value of stone in the inventory. This would be better than using float values. It's just a suggestion, I personally don't need adjustments for resources.

Desmagu completely off topic but... your avatar.... is that from the Offspring? I recognise it but can't quite put my finger on why.

Quote from yahwho

Desmagu completely off topic but... your avatar.... is that from the Offspring? I recognise it but can't quite put my finger on why.

Yes it is . This picture is taken from the "Conspiracy Of One" album

Quote from Avanar

im not sure its really necessary to increase the costs. that will just cause unnecessary grinding for stone and wood. and whats the use?

By your logic here, what is the use of having any resource cost at all? It is just unnecessary grinding for stone and wood, as you say. We are talking about survival mode, this implies some level of realism. Buildings need resources, and those resources require effort to gather, and larger structures should need more resources than smaller structures. In my opinion the ability to build a large simple but effective roof using 1 single unit of stone or lumber damages immersion in a survival game. All I am suggesting is that we scale things to resemble the current java balance of resources vs construction element size, it wont be any more grindy than the java game in its current state.

We already have creative mode for people who want to remove the grind of resource gathering and get straight down to building. The entire nature of survival games is to introduce some time consuming elements to achieving your goals.

I think it is fine to have a minimum cost of 1 stone even for smaller blocks, we don't need to be dealing with fractions of resources. Just round every calculation up to the nearest integer value, problem solved.

Quote from JF91

By your logic here, what is the use of having any resource cost at all? It is just unnecessary grinding for stone and wood, as you say. We are talking about survival mode, this implies some level of realism. Buildings need resources, and those resources require effort to gather, and larger structures should need more resources than smaller structures. In my opinion the ability to build a large simple but effective roof using 1 single unit of stone or lumber damages immersion in a survival game. All I am suggesting is that we scale things to resemble the current java balance of resources vs construction element size, it wont be any more grindy than the java game in its current state.

We already have creative mode for people who want to remove the grind of resource gathering and get straight down to building. The entire nature of survival games is to introduce some time consuming elements to achieving your goals.

I think it is fine to have a minimum cost of 1 stone even for smaller blocks, we don't need to be dealing with fractions of resources. Just round every calculation up to the nearest integer value, problem solved.

That is no logic from your side I am not against costs. Just increasing costs sounds to me unnecessary. Yes, its realistic but where is the point?

The situations where you can use a huge block (in whatever shape) are rare. If you build a giant wall and scale up the parts you should see it in relation to the wall. There even a huge block will be just a tiny brick in the wall.

If you build a wall for a normal house with just one block you take yourself the possibility of adding a door or window. Of course not all houses have windows or doors on all sides but on most of them. And most players here in this game are looking for details. so they usually won´t take this approach and prefer to build that wall with several blocks.

The roof is a good example from your side though and a valid point. Its also one of these rare occassions where you can really create a big area with just a few blocks. However is that rare occassion really worth the effort?

We are not even having a finished building aspect. I am sure (or i hope so at least) some type of material will need to be processed before you gain it in the future. i.e. roof tiles might need wood instead of stone and that wood needs some work first. Or tiles made from clay might need to get burned in the fire first.

As i see it raising the building costs would be a more realistic approach but add nothing to this game specifically. Instead i would suggest to raise the efforts to get a block at all. Several mineral types, processing possibilities (i.e. the above mentioned burning-part for roof tiles or pottery) and also several types of material (stone and wood but maybe also hay from dried grass, gravel, etc).

Additionally some tools that have to be crafted before some shapes or textures are available would be nice.

Raising the costs individually for each block when its placed sounds like a extremely difficult task to me. You already crafted a block and that block has certain capabilities. Im not sure if it would be as easy as you imagine for the game to calculate how many additional ressources or blocks you need when placing it.

Quote from Avanar

That is no logic from your side I am not against costs. Just increasing costs sounds to me unnecessary. Yes, its realistic but where is the point?

My logic is very clear, I would like a game world that at least loosely resembles reality, where resources and construction element size scales together.

Your logic is there is no point in the costs being accurate, so what is so special about the current costs and level of grind that you are ok with? If accuracy is not of value, and grinding is a bad thing, why not slash the costs even further? You clearly see some value in including a grind if you don't want the cost to be removed completely. I don't understand, all I am suggesting is to make the level of grind consistent irrespective of the block sizes you choose to build with. Removing the ability to build giant stone monoliths from a couple rocks. The total amount of grind to gather resources stays the same as it always was! The only person who has to grind more is the person who was planning on building using oversized blocks, and I cant see how this is a bad thing.

Quote from Avanar

We are not even having a finished building aspect. I am sure (or i hope so at least) some type of material will need to be processed before you gain it in the future. i.e. roof tiles might need wood instead of stone and that wood needs some work first. Or tiles made from clay might need to get burned in the fire first.

Wait, I thought you said there is no point in realism? And adding extra grinding is "unnecessary"? Why is realistic production chains needed then? Why are you so against a basic change to make resource costs a little more realistic, but at the same time suggesting large grindy production chains for additional realism? Do you want a realistic game or no? You seem to want a game where half of it is realistic, immersive and grindy, and the other half is a glorified creative mode where you can generate resources out of thin air to place enormous construction elements at minimal cost.

To be clear I would be in favour of the things you propose here, I just don't think both ideas are mutually exclusive. We can make more interesting and immersive production chains AND make our resource costs make sense at the same time.......

Quote from Avanar

Raising the costs individually for each block when its placed sounds like a extremely difficult task to me. You already crafted a block and that block has certain capabilities. Im not sure if it would be as easy as you imagine for the game to calculate how many additional ressources or blocks you need when placing it.

I cant say I know exactly how difficult implementing this in unity is, but the game already gives us the current x, y, and z dimensions of each construction element when it is placed. It is a simple task of multiplying these 3 already existing values together, and rounding up to the nearest integer. Reds above comment suggests that this is not an issue technically.

However I can guarantee you that this is a much easier task for red than reworking the production chains of different block types, adding in additional tools, animations, work benches etc etc to do your alternative solution.

Imagine a multiplayer sever, where with the current system a griefer and come in and with 5 minutes work collecting stone, spam 32x32x32 blocks across the map. It takes only seconds for one player to turn a beautiful server into a huge ugly mess. The clean-up would not take that long, but it highlights how overpowered the scaling system is when resource cost is not altered accordingly.